| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
217
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Granted there are not that many, but more and more players are breaking into that realm of what it cost to keep your clone up to date with the skill points you have.
Yes I know there will be players who chime in with sage words like: "With that many skill points you should be rolling in katrillions of iskies!!!!" or "If you are losing your pod you are doing it wrong!!!!... wait your in null/wormholes?...what do you mean bubbles???" or my personal favorite "It is mechanics like those that make sure this game remains HARD CORE and L33TZOR compared to other games, why you dying anyways? BRING FRIENDS and blob more!"
My questions are: 1) Does this mechanic encourage players to go pew pew more or become more reluctant to engage in combat? 2) If clone upgrade costs were removed completely, what are your solid predictions on how and what things would change. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
221
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wow some of these replies are just awful. 
Also added a third question. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
225
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 17:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm just face palming left and right over the "train an alt" posts. Really?? |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
228
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 19:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adalun Dey wrote:Actions should ALWAYS have consequences. It's what seperates EVE from most other MMORPGs out there.
Instead of lowering the price of clones and removing a useful ISK sink and system to balance risk between new and old players, it might be a better compromise to allow older players to drop skills they no longer find useful or enjoyable. This would both lower the cost of future clones, and narrow the gap with noobs trying to interact with vets in meaningful ways.
In a sandbox your character is the sum of the choices you make, you can have both ice cream AND cake if you want it, but you'll be stuffed if you eat it all. Want to be more nimble? Change your gluttonous ways.
/facepalm |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
230
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 21:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
"2 + 2 = 4 guys, but if we do the equation like this; 2 + 2 - 2 + 2 = 4 we are HARD CORE!" "Why would we complicate something that does not need to be?" "Don't you get it?! HARD CORE!!!" "But the result is the same not to mention the first one allows us to finish the problem faster allowing us to move on to more equations..." "HAAAAARD COOOORRREEEEE!!!!!" "Is that your fith can of Red Bull? You don't look so well." |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
236
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 04:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I love how people go full blown ultra extreme on how by removing clone cost it suddenly flips a holy light switch from 'Super Duper Hard Core' to 'Super Duper Easy Mode'.  |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
236
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 04:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:Malcanis wrote:So it's not that you can't afford it. You just don't want to  Yeah sorry bro, no sympathy here. Especially not over such a petty sum. If top end clones cost half a bill or something then yeah, but the reality is that 45 mill should be a trivial sum. If it isn't, you can stop training before your clone cost gets high (I've diverted my skill training to alts and am lurking just under the 92.5M mark) If you're still training, you probably have at least a rack of +4s, and maybe some hardwires - these will cost at least as much as you clone and most likely a fair bit more. My clones are only 13 mil and it's not a trivial sum to my wallet. It may not prevent me from PVPing that combined with 40+ mil in implants does affect how I play and the risks I take and I'm not a particularly risk averse player. I had honestly expected a more rational position from you. As I stated up thread the idea that these mechanics serve any purpose other than to discourage risk taking is idiotic. All they do is discourage people from playing and encourage blobbing and ganking. If you've ever been pissed about getting blobbed you have no business supporting either of these stupid mechanics. People are too damned risk averse in this game, Hell it's the source of most of the bitter vet tears, "OMG, why won't those carebears won't fly under my guns and give me easy kills." Gee maybe just maybe stupid outdated poorly thought out mechanics that discourage playing the game might have something to do with it. Personally I'd far rather that vet with the 45 million isk clone spend that isk on 10 fitted rifters that could actually generate some game play than in the service of some silly e-bushido "people must risk **** for my game to have meaning" bullshit. If an isk sink is so damned important just bump the market transaction fees a fraction of % it would have a far greater affect on the isk supply than what people spend keeping their docked clones up to date.
What is even more ironic is on another forum (I might be mistaken due to my Google Fu hating me) how he did not want to train anymore due to the clone upgrade cost being too high for the next tier.
So I take your 'no sympathy for 6 year vet player who can't affort clone upgrade costs...' and toss that pie right back in your face Malcanis.  |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
237
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 05:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
I just want whatever the ISK sink may be, directly associated with the ship I'm flying, implants, modules and ammo. NOT with how long I have been playing the game.
How any of you read that as easy mode is just beyond me... |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
251
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malcanis - How much time are you having to spend on retraining core skills on your new alts? I must say, I am tempted to petition CCP to see if your account was hacked. The arguments you have been trying to formulate in this thread have been absolutely terrible and very unlike you.
Once again. The risk pilots take should be with the ship and such things. NOT how long they have been playing the game. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
255
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
I simply can't get behind those who say the clone upgrade system is fine when they risk their pod biannually.
What about those who pvp on a regular basis?? Im talking about those who see combat daily and multiple times during that day. They are risking a substantial amount more in ship and moving the economy than those who dabble in pvp once in a great while.
Yet the system punishes them for having a set between their legs... |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
260
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 01:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ron Maudieu wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Ron Maudieu wrote:Can't afford to lose your pod? Then don't undock.  That's exactly what people are doing which is the problem. They either don't undock and there for don't PVP or they only engage when they are at no actual risk of loss as in in large blobs or severely uneven ganks. The idea is to get people to undock and don't give me that "why don't we just make ships free too" it's not the same thing, because different ships do actually offer different capabilities depending on what you spend on them and hell if you really want you can use a free ship (hello newb ship) so it's not comparable. EvE 101 says: Don't fly what you can not afford to lose. We trying to get them to fly, period. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
260
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 02:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Solaine Talvanis wrote:This isn't as simple a matter as some people posting in this thread seem to think, it influences alot of aspects of the game.
I'm so glad you mentioned this. You see me, along with many others who have posted in this thread, see much, much further down the road in how clone upgrade removal would influence the game. I see...
- More PvP happening
-Thus more stuff blowing up
-Thus the need to replace said blow up stuff
-Thus more market transactions
-Thus more sales tax (hello ISK sink)
-Also higher skill point players opting to slide behind the wheel of a smaller ship
-Thus closing the available skill point game when facing a lower skilled player
-Thus evening the odds a bit more for the newer player
-Thus giving the newer player a chance at success
-Thus making him crave for more PvP and less missioning
-Also due to smaller ships being fielded, it will require other smaller ships to catch them
-Thus less players dry humping some titan bridge
-Thus causing them to get in smaller ships
-Thus having to spread out to deal with other players in smaller ships
-Thus blobbing less
Anyways.... I'm just theorizing, but some of what I said is not far fetched at all.
We don't want free ships or free PvP at all. All we want is what you risk to be tied to the ship, implants and fittings you decided to bring into combat, NOT of how long you have been a customer. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
260
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 02:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cass Lie wrote: There is however also a counterargument, lowering clone costs would significantly increase power projection via death clone jumping. No one is saying this 'issue' should remain untouched to prevent power projection abuse. That said people need to stop hiding behind one broken mechanic as an argument for another one to not be fixed. Believe it or not, but there is nothing wrong with fixing more than one issue at a time.  |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
264
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 08:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Maybe an option to forget skills?
Havnt thought much about it so dunno what the consequences would be.
Personally i think the way it is now works. As previously stated, good ISK sink and we definitely need more ISK sinks in this game. He idea of forgetting learned skills has some merit. Take PI as an example. Most if not all jumped on it, how Many regret wasted time on it. If you had an option to pay to forget a skill it is a an isk sink for ccp and should you wish to train again you have to purchase again. Players win by getting rid of unwanted skills, ccp benefits by getting isk out of players. Win win
I guess I could 'forget' the 500 skill points in mining and maybe the 100 in P.I. Hell even a few hundred skill points in marketing. So lets see. That is like 800 skill points in total and only millions upon millions of skill points to go to get the clone upgrade cost to drop below the cost of a fully T2 fit battlecruiser.  |

Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
281
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 05:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:Reducing high-end clone costs would likely create a bigger ISK-sink in the form of increased PvP activity from ISK strapped old characters going out and exploding more often.
It's significantly more inviting to go suiciding about and having fun with random ships when you know that getting podded isn't costing you an arm and a leg. For those with low ISK, 20-65m per clone can be quite a lot. This person gets it. |

Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 17:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:Just throwing this out there... You know you dont HAVE to upgrade your clone. So you dont HAVE to pay that isk. Also stay away from the super blob fights and you tend to find your pod survives quite a bit.
^^ This is such a weak argument. |

Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
293
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 18:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ariel Dawn wrote:Reducing high-end clone costs would likely create a bigger ISK-sink in the form of increased PvP activity from ISK strapped old characters going out and exploding more often.
It's significantly more inviting to go suiciding about and having fun with random ships when you know that getting podded isn't costing you an arm and a leg. For those with low ISK, 20-65m per clone can be quite a lot. Pod loss is the only ISK sink in PvP. Everything else is either ISK-neutral or creates ISK (insurance) Incorrect. Just off the top of my head I can think of the manufacturing tax from building ships and modules from stations. So with more things blowing up, there is more demand, thus more things being built.
Thanks for playing. |

Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 18:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I'm not against risk. I'm against pointless risk. What's pointless is that the risk increases as the character gets older for really no reason at all. Not to mention this also only really applies to players who do PVP in nullsec or wormhole space. But didn't you know that as you get older you automatically start becoming rich no matter what?.... right?? But, but what about if you don't risk your pod is still is a magical ISK sink too!... wait.... |
| |
|